For a table that was clear it seemed to have a lot of stuff on it :) |
To say Saturday didn't go well would be an understatement, the confusing seemed to come from a little demo that had for me what looked liked two groups jointed together to make one group with the rules stating that for an in sight test the leader takes it for the group if he has line of sight to the enemy, but low & behold as the demo goes on I find that both the groups are taking the test ?
So Sunday I thought to myself feck this for a game of cowboys, I always find the best way to learn rules is to start playing the game & look for answers as the questions come up, its also more enjoyable that way :)
I rolled on the terrain table got clear terrain & then rolled for each square, for a table that was made up on the clear chart it seemed to have a lot of stuff on it, but that said it does look like an interesting table to play on :) anyway as I would normally set a table up to suit what I wanted to do this is not a problem.
Guy in black is me & the PEF's has two in the center of the table & the third over by the well at the far corner. |
I know it's doesn't look like it but believe me he's inside the building :) |
Q 1 was this right ?
The PEF's move then win the roll off for turn to & move again.
My turn so I move fast rolling 2d6 & getting 2 passes, exiting the building & rounding the wall to draw line of sight on the PEF
Q 2 can you move fast when exiting & entering buildings ?
I resolve the PEF & it's a REP 3 cowboy with a pistol, I win the insight test.
Q 3 there's a friend or foe table should I have rolled on that or is it only for PEF's inside buildings ?
Firing twice with my pistol I get a 2 & a 4 which I add to my rep 5, the 7 is a straight up miss, the 9 is also a miss because I moved fast.
The cowboy takes a shot at test passes one and takes a rushed shot back at me missing with both, now I take a shot at test pass 2 & return fire, this time I hit with a 10 5+5REP = 10, but
Q 4 if I'd got an 9 result again would I still count as having moved fast & missed ?
Q 5 that seems very odd as I would have thought the wall would have counted as cover had the cowboy jumped to the far-side of it ?
Anyhow I moved the cowboy into the woods, this brought a PEF into line of sight so I set about resolving it, I rolled on the how many table & its 1 of something, I then rolled on the what are they table & its a witch, so I go to the witch table where I find that witch's can often have cowboys of townsfolk with them but there's always at least one witch ? & there's a table to roll on 1 2 & 3 are not witch's but 4 is a REP 3 witch 5 a PER 4 one & 6 a REP 5 leader witch, as I'd only gotten 1 enemy on the how many is there table I decided to roll a d3 to see which kind of witch I got, which turned out to be a REP 5 leader.
Q 6 did I do right by just rolling a d3 to see what kind of witch I got ?
I don't know what happen with this picture |
Like I said the witch won the insight test but witch's don't have guns but use magic powers instead, I go to the NCP casting table to find it says a witch can only cast when active, now remember this is still in my turn.
Q 7 is the witch active or does she only count as active in her turn ?
I decided she's not active so what else can she do ? looking it up I see that if you can't shot but are within 6" will rush into melee, she not within 6" but she is within range of my weapon so she ducks back behind the building bring the turn to an end.
You can just see the witch near the corner of the building |
The witch moves around to the side of the building & draws line of sight on me so an insight test, which she wins & casts a damage spell, now as far as I can work it out once the spell is cast it an auto hit, so a damage roll is rolled & its a 6 obviously dead result.
I decided I try out the stat power rule & get 5 passes, sometimes its good to be able to roll one's :)
That's were I left it & have to say it enjoyed it & can see why people like the game & for playing solo it really ticks a lot of the box's for me.
Now tbh been mainly a solo gamer I don't get to hung up on rules as I'll just interpret then as I see fit to suits what is going on but I do like if I can to know how they work, I know you lot are not great at paying attention while looking at models ;) so to make things easier for you I'll re-post the questions below :)
1) How do you check if there's anyone in the building, is it the same as resolving a PEF ?
2) Can you move fast when entering or exiting a building ?
3) There's a friend or foe table should I have rolled on that when resolving a PEF or is it only for PEF's inside buildings ?
4) If I've moved fast after the first time I've fired in a shot out do I still carry the the penalty, eg if I'd got an 9 result again would I still count as having moved fast & missed ?
5) Is it only buildings & woods that count as cover ? or would the likes of a wall or a barrel count ?
6) If you've already rolled to find how many models the PEF was & rolled to see what it is & then have to go to another table do you just roll to get REP of what you've already got ?
7) Is a model only active on their turn.
8) This has to do with what I was talking about at the start & is part of what coasted the confusing, when you trigger an insight it says the side that triggered it can move it models an extra 2" for free, does this mean only the group that triggered it or all of the models on that side.
9) If the witch had failed to cast the spell would I have taken a shot at test.
10) In the woods I 'd come into line of sight with the cowboy who can't activate this turn & it's not my turn so would there still be an in sight test.
My thanks in advance for any help you can give me in answering the questions & as always my thanks for dropping :)
Hi Frank that's a tricky set of questions you have, and I can't help, although I will try, but what I would say is - if this was a game you were posting it all seems to hang together in a very 2 Hour way.
ReplyDeleteAs far as I can tell, all the rules are slightly different, they evolve over time and I think that the free set, Chain Reaction version ? would be what all the other rule mechanics will move to, eventually.
I am using Chain Reaction 3 but amended by me so I can't be certain they are Ed's original words, but usually they are. I use the Insight test from All Things Zombie, Final Fade Out, because I like it better than the one in C.R.3. It's more complex but it works for me.
I know this is heretical, but I think wargamers are generally anal about rules, and that's one of the reasons I stopped gamming years ago.
I think you answered your questions in the last paragraph, you don't get hung up on rules and interpret them as best you can.
Please take this with a pinch of salt and I would guess Bryan is probably the right man to answer this as I'm fairly certain he has High Moon which I don't.
Q1 In the rules I have there is a Buildings Occupants Table, maybe you have that.
Q2 In the rules I have it says Figures reduce their move by 2" for going through a doorway but can move fast. However it also says Movement in buildings is at normal speed. In my house I can't run, the place is too small, yours may be different.
Q3 will be specific to High Moon I think.
Q4 in my rules it says if the Shooter passed a Fast Move test the target was missed, as you are still in the same turn I would suggest that the penalty still applies. You are still out of breath or whatever.
Q5 in my rules it says Cover - if the target is behind a solid obstruction that can stop a bullet it is in cover. So what wall, what bullet, you decision.
Q6 Specific to High Moon I think.
Q7 Yes only active on their turn unless someone knows better.
However having read your question in the body of the post it may be different here because she's a witch and you are talking about spells, I know that's not helpful.
Q8 In my rules it is only the group that triggered it not everyone. I personally don't use the 2" rule.
Q9 I don't know - it would be specific to these rules, however I would think if she failed to cast a spell it would not affect you, unlike if someone fired at you but missed, then you would take a "shot at test", if they didn't fire at you there would be no shot at test.
Q10 I can't find your example but I guess you are ducking back and that's when you see the cowboy. In my rules it says, whenever a group has an opposing group enter it's line of sight and was not previously seen during this activation phase, both groups take this test. So I would think so.
I know this is not very helpful but the best I can do, however I would still say if you are happy with your interpretation and it gives a good result - it must be right.
Thanks John,that is very helpful & helps a lot as I now look at some of those rules from a different angle :)
ReplyDeleteThere is a link on one of your little Whiskey post to a PDF of High Moon if your interested, that's where I got them:0
You spotted my take on rules & how I use them & I would think your probably like minded & I would agree about a lot of people been more interested in how rules work then just rolling the dice & having a few giggles, one of the great things about solo gaming is you don't need to worry about the first thing so you can just enjoy the second :)
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question John :)
OK, I'll try to give you some of my reactions to your questions; though I don't have any experience of "High Moon", I have experience of THW's rules (and the nightmarr experience they can be.
ReplyDeleteTake ATZ (BDTZ), which I beleive was the second incarnationof their rules. The rules changed at least twice more and with the cut and pace used in future expansions gave way to many more problems (mostl ommisiions).
I have Chain reactin, CR 3, CR3.1, CR3.1 Final Edition and CR3.1 Final Final edition! At times they seem to contradict and make litlle sense why the rules were changed. It's one of the reasons I won't even be looking at the latest incarnation (let alone the cost)
So:
1) There should be a chart for occuoancy - I ammended mine, for ATZ based on the rules, but combined their various into one and allowed for time passed (less civilians, more surviours etc.)
2)Coording to what I remember (again all comment reference ATZ), you can move fast into a building, but once inside movement is restricted to 4". It makes sense if it's a house, but not a factory! (I use half speed in buildings)
3) I suspect the firend or foe table would be used when encountering an unknown foe - the rules should (but probably don't) explain this.
4)IMO If you fired then moved, fast or not, then you should have had the penalty imo (time and motion). If you moved fast then fired the same applies. Once you have moved , that's it until the opposition's turn (excluding reaction fire). In their turn you are no longer fast moving .
5)Cover, is cover (ignore the obvious ommisiion tha a wall isn;t included). I f it protects you from either being shot at or seen - it's cover.
6)In ATZ revealed characters' REPs are found from their relevant table dependent upon what they are. There should be a table of REPs for various characters or suggestions how to find their REP.
7) Yes, figures are active only on their turn, but can (must) react on the opposition's turn and can shoot, run away etc.
8)Figures move in groups, even if only a grpoup of one. When the first figure in a group triggers an insight test (as soon as it move in sight- the others are frozen in time at that point), the others in the group have the chance to move an additional 2" to "catch up" with the figure that caused the insight. I think this is bollocks and use fractional moves (1/4, 1/2 3/4) So if the first figure uses up to half his move to ocme insight, then the remainder of the group also gets to move 1/2 their move.
9)IMO , no shot no reaction. If I point a gun at you and it doesn;t go off do you react. Possibly, but probably on your turn, but the case can also be made that I could immediately react with return fire or some such. It's another case of the reaction rules being bollocks.
10)It must have been someone's action that caused the two to come into sight of one another. If you moved, it's your turn and you're active -go to the insight test or thte other guy moved and hence it's his turn and his in sight.
Sorry for the long-winded reply.
Everyone that's played any of the variations of Chain Reaction has probably had the same dilemmas you have had, I know I have.
The insight test has changed over the years and become more convoluted than it's worth imho. I've been looking at reverting to I move, I shoot (or maybe shout), then whomever I shot or shouted at reacts.
I cnonly hope this helps.
Thanks Joe & no need to be sorry for trying to help me out, I'm just glad you took the time :)
ReplyDeleteI was wondering was some of the problems things that were just carried over from earlier additions of the rules, as I've seen this before where they just copy & paste stuff.
As with John's reply above seen things from a different angle really helps to understand how the rules work, & it could be a case of me missing out on certain things that you've pointed out.
Thanks for taking the time to help me out mate :)
Great Scott! Reading your post and the responses I've gone a bit cross eyed lol! I just need someone across the table from me telling me how the rules work! Hopefully it all works out for you and you've got a better understanding of the rules because I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with this old west storyline :)
ReplyDeleteThanks Ivor, sorry about your eye's mate :) I've a plan in my mind for something I'd like to do with it but have to get a grip on the rules first :(
ReplyDelete